Ford Club Wagon

1997 Ford Club Wagon Engine   

No check engine light comes on, does not set a code -- Ford dealer said a "code" should come on -- NOT happening!! The van engine "quits" while driving -- normally when slowing down and making a turn OR just quits at very low speeds -- never has quit while going down a highway. Have had 2 separate dealerships look at it. The last dealer had it a month or month and a half and NEVER could figure out the problem. HELP!!!

Hello, Has a repair shop been able to duplicate the problem, or are you hearing "No trouble found"?

Does the amount of fuel in the tank factor at all? How many miles on this one? What engine please? Has the fuel pressure been monitored while driving and at the time the event occurs?

Roger

Thanks -- 5.6 liter v-I Triton motor -- van has 89,900 miles. Have only taken to Ford Dealers and they cannot diagnose a problem. The one that had it over a month could not get it to die. My husband has run it on 1/4 tank of gas and has filled it up and run it -- level of fuel does not matter. My husband took it in this a.m. for a recall part -- to keep cruise control from catching van on fire. He left the dealership, drove through a hugh parking lot at a Cabela's and it died twice when slowing down at stop sign in parking lot and when making a turn. The dealership (the last one) installed a device to catch codes. My husband had it in the van for about 3 weeks, van would die, left no code.

This van was also recalled for a fuel tank around 40,000 or 50,000 miles. Old fuel tank taken out and new one put in -- started doing this "dying" around 65,000 or 70,000 miles and is still doing it.

May I suggest that a fuel pressure guage be connected and the vehicle road tested to see if the pressure fluxuates during the condition. When I do this myself I duct tape the guage to the windshiel so I can watch the reading.

When opening the throttle by hand does the throttle feel as though it sticks a little bit just as the throttle begins to move off rest? The throttle body bore and valve may need cleaning.

Still thinking,

Roger

The dealership put a gauge on the van and "they" tested it. They would not let my husband have the van with the gauge. They never could get it to "die" so the gauge test was useless. My husband is pulling up at our house now and is going to look at the receipts. He thinks something on the throttle body has been replaced at some point. Will let you know as soon as I hear from him. Now can you understand our frustration?

Sure can. I will try to guide you as best I can.

Roger

Fuel tank was replaced (no charge - it was a recall) 61,500 miles in 2002 (June).

Engine light came on at 82,098 miles. Took it to 1st dealer - they replaced a DPFE sensor ($120) and AB sensor assembly ($87). After they got codes of PO401 and PO 171 and PO 174 is when they replaced the DPFE sensor and AB sensor assembly. (all in 2005).

Dealer flushed fuel injectors/replaced valve ASY-TH ($13() (throttle valve assembly??)

since then all they do is multi point test -- "no problem found at this time -- August of 06 is the last time we let them have it and that was for a month and a half - 08/08/06 to 09/28/06 is how long they had it 85,858 miles on it -- now it has 89.900 on it. My husband is the primary driver of it, but we won't drive it a lot because of this problem.

Are you as confused as we are? Should I release this question so other mechanics can answer?? Is it because FORD built it??

You are welcome to release the question so others can try if that is your wish.

I'm still trying to process the history to develop a plan..

Roger

I will let you give it your best shot. It just seems to have the Ford dealers perplexed. One dealer said to make sure we disconnected any aftermarket radio, cd players, etc. We have done that and it is still dying. I am leaving work -- I am in central time zone. Will check in when I get home or in the a.m. when I am back at work. Thank you for your help.

Duplicating the complaint is paramount. When the condition is not present the vehicle will pass every test one can think of.

If the Van came to me I would road test it with a fuel pressure guage connected as I described. I count on the owner to do the driving while I watch the pressure gauge for something unusual to occur.

Connecting an OBD II scanner would also be done so I could monitor the sensors for glitches during the test drive.

Problem vehicles require a dedicated team effort as owner and technician work together to troubleshoot the problem.

If you (the owner) drive first and can show them what the vehicle is doing, and then the mechanic drives to see if he can duplicate the complaint, you'll get a focus and a clear understanding what symptom to work on.

Too often you are expected to describe the problem and leave the vehicle to let others assume they know what you are talking about. OH!..and they want a diagnosis fee for their time.

If you are paying for an hour diagnosis time then make time to do the driving while the technician rides with you. If the complaint doesn't happen in the time you spent together you'll have confidence there was good effort made for your money.

Don't leave the vehicle yet.

If you both succeed in duplicating the complaint (while testing together) then decide if you choose to pay for the repairs the diagnosis calls for.

This process eliminates service department employees running random trips to lunch or home for the night to see if they notice anything unusual.

I don't know about the guys you have tried, but that's how I roll. You deserve respect.

See what tools you can rent locally that will help you if you want to work on this yourself. A fuel pressure guage is a great start. I doubt you can rent a scanner, but since there are no codes being set you can start without one.

Take the air inlet duct off of the throttle body. Look in the bore at the surfaces that meet when the throttle valve is closed. Are the surfaces gummed up with fuel deposits?

Roger

This just in. Since yesterday when my husband went to the dealership for the recall on the cruise control, the van is consistently dying. It did it twice yesterday as soon as he left the dealer and twice again this morning. Last August the dealer installed a device (scanner maybe) that attached inside the van. When the van would die, my husband would push a button to record it -- no codes were ever recorded. Since my husband is basically the only one that drives the van, the seat and steering column are never moved. He thinks maybe a "large" mechanic got into the van, adjusted the seat and moved the steering column up. He is thinking maybe a wire in the steering column is rubbing but only when my husband has it in the lowered position he uses so when the mechanics were driving it over 1 1/2 months, they had it in a different position and it would never "rub" the wires or "die." Does this make any sense? Could it be a wire in the steering column?

The wiring harness in the steering column for the multi-function switch will move when the column is tilted for driving or for exiting the vehicle.

The ignition electrical switch is on top of the column but the wiring to that switch does not move when the column tilts. It does not run up through the column. It is not part of the multi-function switch.

The tilting of the column could rub wires and effect the turn signals, the wipers/washers, the headlights, brake light systems, but it would be very wierd for a tilt function to cause an engine to stall.

I hope my illustration of the owner driving first to demonstrate to a technician what/how the vehicle behaves and then letting the technician drive and prove to the owner (and himself) he can duplicate the complaint now has value to you.

If the position of the column is believed to be a factor in duplicating the complaint then by all means make that understood. Whether the tech agrees, or not!

You'll benefit greatly if you can just put the technician in your shoes, so to speak.

Could it be a wire in the steering column? Maybe so! It would be unusual, but exceptions to the norm will always be a possibility and a challenge to the best technician breathing air.

Roger

I had a Ford Probe (1st year they were made). I had the car 5 years. I had 5 alternators over the 5 year period. Every time an alternator went out it caused a "different" electrical problem. The technician got Ford in Michigan involved and they never could figure out the problem. Ford bought the car back from me. Now we have this ongoing problem with the van. We spent 1.5 hours last August discussing this problem with the service manager. My husband and I both work and can't go spend a day at the dealership -- the van is not under warranty and they are not going to let a mechanic go riding around without billing us. They had the van for 1 1/2 months and drove it when they had time and never could get it to die. There are no symptoms, there is no warning, no check engine light comes on, you turn the steering wheel at any given time and it dies. Yesterday it did it 1 mile from the dealership -- the last time before that was 800 miles ago. I understand what you are saying, but it is not logical when it could take up to 800 miles for it to do it again. Any other suggestions -- we can't be the only people on this planet having this issue???

I offered you my 30 years of experience as to how I would pursue this repair if you brought it to me. I am very good at what I do. That includes admitting I do not know it all.

One last thought is to suggest you meet with a Ford Representative for Service. A Ford Dealer can arrange the meeting for you, or you can call Ford.

The representative can check case files for similar repairs on record and possibly offer you good will assistance in your case.

Go ahead and release the question for other providers to offer assistance. I won't be offended. I want you to have every advantage available through the use of this site.

That's my best shot, thanks for the chance.

Roger

Thank you for your help. We have never ventured from a Ford dealership because they built it and we figured they could fix it. You would think the service mgr. would have access to a Ford database to research if anyone else has had this problem. Oh well, I will try to get back with you IF we ever get this resolved.

I met with a "Ford rep" when I had the Probe problem -- he offered me $5,000 trade-in on my car and that was it. I work for a law firm so we wrote a DTPA letter, hence Ford bought the car back. The regional rep was not helpful in the least. I decided that somewhere in this "internet" world someone has had this problem and there is some way to fix it. Thanks again for your input.

Will the engine immediately restart?

Has anyone tried a wiggle test to duplicate the problem?

How low must the rpm's drop before the engine will quit?

We put the van in neutral while it is still rolling and it restarts immediately EVERY TIME. No wiggle test -- what is a wiggle test? Must be fairly low RPM because it happens slowing down and going into a turn -- either a sharp or gentle turn. There is no tach -- it is an automatic.

With the engine idling turn the steering wheel and note if the idle speed increases slightly. The computer (PCM) should increase the idle slightly to compensate for the extra load put on the engine to operate the power steering pump.

Did they ever try cleaning the throttle body, including the idle speed motor (idle air control valve)?

Wiggle test:

When you turn a corner shifting takes place throughout the vehicle. This shifting can put stress on wiring/etc, sometimes to the point of causing problems. A wiggle test simulates similar stress while the vehicle is stationary. This can be dangerous, especially under-hood around moving engine parts, so should only be performed by an experienced technician familiar with the dangers...

Fuel tank was replaced (no charge - it was a recall) 61,500 miles in 2002 (June).

Engine light came on at 82,098 miles. Took it to 1st dealer - they replaced a DPFE sensor ($120) and AB sensor assembly ($87). After they got codes of PO401 and PO 171 and PO 174 is when they replaced the DPFE sensor and AB sensor assembly. (all in 2005).

Dealer flushed fuel injectors/replaced valve ASY-TH ($13() (throttle valve assembly??

since then all they do is multi point test -- "no problem found at this time -- August of 06 is the last time we let them have it and that was for a month and a half - 08/08/06 to 09/28/06 is how long they had it 85,858 miles on it -- now it has 89.900 on it. My husband is the primary driver of it, but we won't drive it a lot because of this problem."

Has anyone tried the following test to see if the computer is adjusting the idle properly? --With the engine idling turn the steering wheel and note if the idle speed increases slightly. The computer (PCM) should increase the idle slightly to compensate for the extra load put on the engine to operate the power steering pump.

Will check with my husband and let you know -- don't think so though. Could this problem have anything to do with the gas tank being replaced and maybe some wire on the top not being secure???

1985 Ford Club Wagon Fuel System Malfunction When starting 

I have had a sticking fuel pump relay for months, draining my battery and have controled it by first disconnecting the battery. Then burned out the pump, replaces it and found the impact disconnect at the passenger side wall and disconnected it. This morning, damn cold one, when I connected the plug to the disconnect, no pump. The relay is not working. Where is it? Mechanics tell me that Ford does not list locations and they would have to research. The wireing diagrams that I have do not even show the pump or a relay. Do you know where the realy is physcially located in my van??
Thanks,
Hank Fountain
Poulsbo, WA

Which engine, is the engine fuel injected?

No fuel injection.
Thanks

I can't find a fuel pump relay listed for this application, this makes it impossible for me to assist you on this question.

I'll release the question so another tech can assist you.

The fuel pump relay should be under the hood, somewhere around the perimter of the hood. If you have a 460 the relay has 4 wires: yellow, black, red/yellow, pink/black. If you have a 302 the wire colors are: yellow, pink/black, tan/light green, red.

Hope this helps.

That helped. Susplaine something to me. When I turn off the key, the in tank fuel pump keeps on running, draining the battery, eventually burning out the pump. New pump and when I disconnect the "impact circuit breaker" - problem band-aided.
What turns off the pump. Following your wireing info, one of the wires into the circuit breaker has to be one from the relay. I follow the red - yellow directly to a fusable link to the positive terminal on the Senoloid(?). Always hot. The other lead from the cicuit breaker leads ?????
Thanks,
Hank

Hank,
The power supply comes to the tank this way. #1 "impact circuit breaker"
#2 Relay
#3 Pump
The relay is turned on internally by a miniture magnetic coil. This coil has power from the key and ground from the body. It seems that the likely "single fault point" would be a stuck relay.

The 4 wires at the relay are: 1-hot-from circuit breaker, 1 hot with key on, 1 direct to pump (or dual tank switch), 1 from the body (ground)
Dale

Still looking for the physical location of the relay. Under the perimeter of the hood I only find one relay type unit but not the one we want. The black/yellow comes from the circuit breaker along the upper frontedge of the fire wall left to right and disappears in to a large bundle of wire and connections. At least now the relay has gone into "stuck on" mode which I can handle by unpluging. Saturday AM went into stuck off mode and with no pump, no run. I'll get back into it next weekend.
Thanks,
Hank

None of my info shows the exact location for that year. I believe some were also under the dash on the right side.

Hoping you can find it soon.
Dale