Plymouth Sundance

1993 Plymouth Sundance Ignition System Won't Start  

Car won't start. Turns over fine. No fire from the coil and no fire going into the coil in the 2wire connector. No sound from fuel pump. The only dash warning lights coming on are "emergency brake" and "seat belts"-no oil pressure light or "check engine" light. Tried a new "auto shutdown relay" but no change. Car was running fine the day before. Have not had this problem since purchasing 5 years ago. We put over 150000 and now has total of 310000km. Any ideas?

Barry

Barry,
First check your fuses with the key turned on. With the key on and the lights on, each fuse should light a test light on each side. If no power on one or several fuses, it sounds like a problem in ignition switch, or power to the ignition switch. Check the round connectors near the battery and the fusible links in the wire harness near the battery.

If the fuses check ok, it could be a disconnected harness between the firewall and the engine. Check them closely to be sure each connector is fully latched together. If you need more help, tell me which engine you have.
Dale

Thanks Dale
For the fuse test do you mean to turn on the headlights along with ignition? The test lights are on each side of what? Do you want me to take out each fuse and test both ends of the fuse holder or test each fuse with a tester?
Barry

Barry,
To test the fuses, use a test light and touch the tiny metal tab sticking out of the top of the fuse. Each fuse has two and the best test is to see if each tab will light a test light. With the key on and the lights on, all the fuses should have power on both sides. If only one side lights the test light, the fuse is bad...replace with the proper size fuse. If both sides light, circuit is OK, If neither side lights, then it is a power supply to the fuse problem.
Dale

Dale
That was a neat way of checking circuits. All tested with 12volts on both sides of the fuse.

The engine is a 2.2. There is a 2 wire connector going into the coil with a green/brown and a solid grey wires. I assume there should be voltage in one of those wires but there is none. I found one round connector near the battery badly corroded with the green copper sulfate but there was no change after cleaning it up. connectors look good. Can't find any fusible links but I didn't tear the whole wiring harness apart. Any other thoughts?
Barry

OK Barry,
Next stage.
I would put my test light on the dark green/orange wire at the coil and watch for light. It should light for 3 seconds when the key is first turned on. It should light again when the engine is being cranked.

If it lights at first turn on, but not when cranked, most likely a bad pick-up in the distributor.

If it lights both times, backprobe the black/gray wire at the coil with the test light. It should blink when cranked. If it blinks, change the coil.

If no light either time on the coil wire, remove the "auto shut down relay". It has 4 wires coming to it. Red/white should have power all the time. When jumped to green/orange, you should have power at the coil. Dark blue should have power with the key on. Dark blue/yellow is the ground signal from the computer to turn the relay on. If you ground this wire with the relay installed, you should have power at the coil.

I will be back in on Monday, so you can update me with your testing the beginning of the week.
Dale

Dale
There was no power in the green/orange wire at the coil when the key was turned on or when cranking. (The magnetic pickup in the distributer in brand new-along with the rotor button. Also tried a new auto shutdown relay.)
There is power at the coil when jumping the red/white to the green/orange.
There is power in the dark blue with the key on.
When I ground the blue/yellow there is power at the coil with the key on. (the fuel pump also runs along with a steady noise around the throttle body.)
Barry

OK,
The relay and all relay output wiring is good. We are missing the signal from the computer. The check engine light also is turned on directly from the computer. So 2 outputs from the computer are failing. Lets look at the inputs to the computer now. It is on the left fender and has as 60 pin connector.

At the computer,
Pin 9, dark blue wire should be 12v with the key on.
Pin 3, red/white should be 12v all the time.
Pin 11,12, black/tan are ground. MAKE sure they are grounded well. Check this with the test light clipped on the battery positive. It should light brightly and consistently when touched or backprobed on the black/tan wires. If there is a problem on these wires, check the black 6 wire connector behind the battery.

If all is ok, we have a failed computer. If any circuit is bad, we will fix that and should get you running again.
Dale

Dale
Everything checked out so I guess the computer is shot. Are these expensive and, if so, is there a range of years incase the scrap yards don't have a 1993? Any special problems installing?
Barry

Barry,
Jnkyards are less than $150. Even from the dealer, a rebuilt should be about $300. 1993 only will work, it can be shadow or sundance, but must be 2.2. They have one for stick shift, automatic federal emissions, automatic California emmissions. Pull the old one out and match numbers at the junkyard. No special trick to replacing a computer. Make sure the key is off when you connect or disconnect the wiring. If you have any trouble locating one, e-mail me direct at [redacted]

Dale
Found a computer in a scrapyard for $50. It's for an automatic but it works well. Thanks for all your help. If it wasn't for you I would be months trying to figure it out.
Barry

You are welcome.
I enjoy the work I do every day, even when I work all day and get paid only for an hour. Best wishes with the car. I would recommend you get the right computer, especially if you are required to do emissions testing. Each computer is tuned to run the car most efficiently.
Dale

1993 Plymouth Sundance All Part Groups   

My mom has a 1993 Plymouth Sundance with a 3.0.I have two prpblem's i can't figure out.The first one is that the car overheat's while idling, but if you drive it down the road it's fine.I've replaced the water pump,radiator, and thermostat twice.And it still does it.The next problem is about every month it will start acting stupid.You will go out to start it, and turn the key, and it will click once, and then nothing.If you try three or four times it'll start.I've replaced the battery, and tested the starter, and cleaned all the connections on the battery, and starter ect.And it still does it every once in a while.It's driving me crazy.Any suggestions would be appreciated.Thanks wally32

Test the rad fans with a hot wire to batt.Test thermostatic fan switch, beside thermostat.Ground the wire and see if fans come on.
Ignition switches do wear out, They are on top of column, about 1/2 way down.Also easy to change if you lower column down from dash,

It seem that worked thanks

1992 Plymouth Sundance All Part Groups Overheating When driving When warm 

Thermostat replaced, fan replaced, coolant temperature sensor replaced, rad replaced. Fuseable link replaced, rad fan relay replaced. Trans fluid replaced.

Car drives & shifts great when engine still cold. Temp gauge flutuates between mid range to med-high between driving and 3/4 min wait at lights engine warm. Used to got all the way past the H, then I changed Rad, engine oil and tranny fluid. Runs at right temp at 100 on highway.

Car starts to have shifting issues when heat gauge reads mid heat and hotter. Shifting becomes delayed and is off by 20-30 KM's at worst. You can hear the rev too much, should shift quick like when cold.

Rad fan still does not come on when engine hot at idle. Fan tested with 12v, works great. Removing temp sensor before idling - fan comes on as it should according to Haynes. Wiring the new fuseable link was time consuming. I found the main coductor for the links, but am uncertain how far back to find what is called 'the connector'. Tested wiring with volt meter, continuity between fan to relay and relay to sensor are good.

98 K 1992 Plymouth Sundance 2.5L not turbo.

Is there another sensor ?
Thanks
rayandjenny@rogers.com

Are you saying the engine still will overheat and the fan will not come on? I want to make sure you waited long enough while idling that the fan definitely should of turned on.

If you unplug the coolant sensor (located near thermostat housing) the fan will turn on?

The rad fan never comes on by itself, whether engine heat gauge was at middle heat, or hotter up to and past H. If I unplug the sensor, the fan comes on.

I have left the sensor unplugged to keep the fan on for oine trip into the city(but put it back on after wards)

Idling causes the heat to reach the mid mark and past the next line. Fan still does not come on, even when you turn on AC(currently not working, however air is slightly cooler). The fan should come on to pass the cool on from the rad to the condenser that is right in fron of it. The Radiator that I had installed is excellent quality, and keeps the heat gauge to the first line when the vehicle is moving.

I have to check the engine error codes, no major alarms on dash.

Are you saying you are going to check the error codes?

I will get back to you tomorrow.

Sorry for the delay in responding. I have checked the codes and there are none coming up. Fan still does not come on regardless of heat level,driving duration or type(i.e idling at lights or moving).

Have you tested the sensor to make sure it is changing as the engine heats up?

No I have not, I may need small instructions to do so. I was beginning to wonder if I go the wrong sensor from the parts dealer. Looked very similar yet the nub that enteres the thermostat cavity was smaller than the original.

How do I test the sensor for a reading ? I had unplugged the connector and started it up and the fan came on as it should.

Use the following link to access a repair guide that contains instructions-

http://autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=RG001&UserAction=viewRepairGuideYMMEYear

1989 Plymouth Sundance Engine Leaking When driving Always

Engine is always using oil. Only has 150,000 km. The exhaust is blue when letting off the gas. Not blue while accelerating. It is also leaking a little oil out of the head gasket.

HI;
You might want to run adry and wet compression test. Sounds like you might have bad rings. Run a compression test on all cylinders. Then squirt a couple of drop of oil into the cylinders and run the test again. If compression changes it tells you that you got bad rings.If no change might be bad valve guide seals. Good Luck Les.

1976 Plymouth Sundance Electrical / Lighting Systems Won't Start When starting 

The car has a draw which is draining the battery. I have checked all the fuses and they don't seem to be the problem. I have tested the battery-OK also the alternator-OK. Any suggestions? Also where can I obtain a wiring diagram? Thank You Sassie

5-6-03.
Hello, Do you have an amp meter (dc amps) with 10amp dc fused test capability for this diagnosis?

The dc amp meter test leads must be placed inline (in series) between the disconnected negative battery cable and the battery negative post. Ignition key must be 'off' for this test, no doors open, nothing turned 'on'.

A '70's car should not have any amp draw detected. If a draw is detected, first disconnect after market alarms, steros, etc., so as to eliminate such systems from your diagnosis. If all the draw is gone now, you've isolated the problem to be an after market accessory system. If the draw is still present then pull fuses one at a time until the draw stops. The last fuse you pull that effects the draw tells you which system to check for improper parts installed, stuck relays, pinched wiring, and so on.

A vehicle can have up to 35 miliamps dc draw on a battery and if driven frequently, you should not have trouble. Total draw of computer, radio station memory, clocks and after market systems cannot exceed 35 dc miliamps. That's 0.035 amps dc on your meter screen.

Wiring diagrams can some times be found in reference books at your public library where you can make copies. Another source might be http://www.helminc.com where shop manuals can be bought (if still available for 1976 models) and there may be a friendly Chrysler/Plymouth dealer service manager who would let you look at his copy. And lastly, there may be something that would work for you at an automotive chain store, or a Mopar Car Club locally or, online.

Questions?

Roger

5-12-03.

Last call, please respond by accepting/rejecting the help I've offered you.

Roger